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Interview with Kuber Tiwari (Q1) INTERVIEWER: So, your introduction. (A1) KUBER TIWARI: I am Kuber Tiwari. The families of my father and his elder brother are associated with Shastri Brahm. My younger uncle is in America where he went to study. He has also lived in Paris . At present-according to his letter-he is living in Illinois and has married there and has three daughters-no sons to the best of my knowledge. I am the eldest of all my brothers and I have got this dhaam connected to the Bihar Rajya Dharmik Nyaspur. I am the secretary of the Sri Shastri Dar Dharmik. Since 1990 I have been the president of the dham. People will not let me retire because I am serving this place with such dedication and because I am here the development work is moving forward day by day. I make sure to keep the purity of this place and its code of conduct, the method of worship all pristine. There are thirty-seven priests who take turns to act as temple priests for the pilgrims who come here. The acting priest of the day pays for the evening arati and evening worship from his own pocket. We have a committee-Nyasa Committee-that has nine members. The C. O. of Arampur is the president of the committee. Eight of the members are priests. (Q2) INTERVIEWER: Who decides in this committee and who should take part? Does the government decide this? (A2) KUBER TIWARI: No, not the government. The government looks after general places of worship, like places of Mother Durga, Shankar and Mahavir. This place is not a general place since it has to do with a Brahm . It is associated with the family of Baba Shastri Brahm. (Q3) INTERVIEWER: Since when? (A3) KUBER TIWARI: He became a Brahm in 1484. About 150-200 years ago on of our ancestors had a dream at night in which Baba (i.e. Shastri Brahm ) told him to dig out a Shiva linga-like statue from underneath a pipal tree that is still there. He orders him to have this image invested with life with the best pandits available. He told my ancestor to spread this news far and wide and tell all Brahmins that if they don't come to the ceremony they would do so at their own risk. People knew about how he had destroyed the king's fort and were frightened of his anger. My ancestor got together with other Brahmins and they decided that the ninth day of the bright half of the month of Bhadan would henceforth be celebrated as the day on which Baba became a Brahm. Everyone came and the ceremony was performed with great pomp and show. He statue-which had been dug out from exactly the same place he had identified in the dream-was worshipped in the ritually prescribed manner of sixteen offerings, including bathing the image with honey, milk, ghee, sugar and water. The fire sacrifice is done more here than at any other place in India in the fire pit the offering is not partaken of as prashad because all of it goes to the deity. The ghee used in the fire pit acts as water to quench Baba' thirst. People offer huge quantities of ghee in the fire pit here. We have no stake involved in it. The mantra for the fire pit is "Gun Brahme Shastri Brahme Svaha." This place has its own distinctive puja method that only we know. Only Brahmins can become Brahms upon dying, no one else can. Earlier Shastri Brahm was known by another name. Laser be became famous and now he has become god-like so he is now called Shastri Brahm Dev. There are 108 Brahms in the world, and Baba is king of all of them. All the other brahms can only "consume" their puja after taking permission from Baba. He is the most powerful. Before his puja sankalpa is done using the worshipper's name, gotra, address, country, etc. Since Baba is a Brahmin he is necessarily offered a sacred thread in his puja. All other offerings are the same as for any other go or goddess-sandalwood paste, flowers, arati, fruits, and five kinds of dried fruits. Vegetables are not offered. Any fruit can be. At the end, people offer dakshina (the payment for ritual services). Once people's wishes are fulfilled they usually come bask to feed Brahmins or to donate clothes to them. People bringing their priests with them are doing something useless because only we know how to worship Baba . This method was developed by our ancestor who had the dream and to this day this method is followed. He was the one who decided which priest would officiate on which day. (Q4) INTERVIEWER: What is this place called, exactly? (A4) KUBER TIWARI: This place is called Sonhatiya. This place is called that because earlier, 150-200 years ago, only goldsmiths used to live here, here the name. In times past, this place had 52 streets and 53 marketplaces because every street had a market along it and the 53 rd market was along the main road. This place also used to be called "Chandpur" because the Mother Goddess destroyed the demons Mund and Chand. (Q1) INTERVIEWER: Ok sir, please tell us something about yourself again. |
(A1) KUBER TIWARI: I am a son of a Brahmin family who (practices his) family profession--generation after generation--at this place of Shastri Brahm . We perform this for whoever comes from far and wide suffering from vamsa kasta (problem in having children to perpetuate the family name) or afflictions by ghosts, etc. For this, as per the rule of this dhaam an "application" of 1.25 rupees is "filed" (with Shastri Brahm) just as an application is given in any court in order to file a suit--and so considering Baba (Shastri Brahm) to be one's guru, god or patron deity we have (this sufferer) "file" "an application" petition." First, we pronounce that person's name, village, district, and locale--whether that person is boy or girl, old man or old woman, or whatever. After saying the person's district, village and address, we pray to Maharaj ( Shastri Brahm ) that the wish that these people have presented before him will be fulfilled, may their victory be celebrated.
(Q2) INTERVIEWER: I see.
(A2) KUBER TIWARI: Next we arrange for a sitting (baithaki), so the subtle self (jiva) that is called preta yoni (ghostly life form)--human beings and ghostly entities are two sides of the same coin, like heads and tails. When the soul is released from the human life form (manusya yoni) then it first attains preta yoni--there are some pretas that result from untimely death. A lot of their life aims remain unfulfilled, incomplete. It also happens that sometimes someone is killed by somebody and then the deceased, having become a preta, takes revenge on that person. Another possibility is that someone--an exorcist ( ojha ) or adept (guni)--anyone with the help of tantric powers--captures a sukshma jiva (subtle-micro-individual, a ghost) and ends it upon someone, and this, too, produces suffering in the latter. Whenever any such people come here we get their work done and pacify (the afflicting spirit) with a coconut, according to the tradition/practice of our court (darbar).
(Q3) INTERVIEWER : I see.
(A3) KUBER TIWARI: We have it (the coconut) burned in a havan (a fire pit)-after making the sufferer take a vow. The people in this world are afflicted by one of the three forms of heat: bodily, fortune-related and spiritual. Bodily (dairik) means bodily suffering, Fortune related (dainik) means planetary obstruction and bhaitik means afflictions by ghosts and spirits. We eradicate all three via the pacification of that coconut. Next we give an amulet ( yantra ) from our place to that person to tie on his arm and with that we tell him some rules to comply with, for example, not to eat food sullied by anyone else, or onion, garlic or meat; not to give or take anything from anyone by going to their place. We prohibit him from doing all the above for one year.
Q4 INTERVIEWER I understand.
(A4) KUBER TIWARI: And, after doing so much, whoever comes to this royal court (darbar) with whatever wish that has been done fully by the mercy of Baba (Lord Shastri Brahm), so after returning to happiness, they donate whatever they are capable of and we bless them. They keep coming back again and again to the royal court (darbar) that bestows welfare. And they keep coming. Baba's name and fame is increasing day by day. Whoever comes to his darbar to ask for anything, gets it.
(Q5) INTERVIEWER: O.K. suppose I have a child, a month old, who keeps crying day and night. If I brought him or her to you, then.
(A5) KUBER TIWARI: So, first I'll do what I've already told you about: "filing a petition here." I'll do that first, by speaking out his or her parents' names. I'll pray to Maharaj (the great king): There is a boy who can neither speak nor explain what his problem is, nor say anything at all. Whatever action or ritual (kriya) needs to be done for him, we'll get it done--after having the petition filed we'll have that pacifying ritual done for him-if necessary-otherwise simply praying to Maharaj verbally too results in good. But we will surely give him an amulet ( yantra ) and, on behalf of the child, his or her mother will follow the rules and that will work to the child's welfare, i.e. his crying will stop or if he or she has any internal suffering, then he will get release form it and he will get relief.
(Q6) INTERVIEWER: O.K. so how does Baba - ji say what should be done.
(A6) KUBER TIWARI: As for that we have a rule coming down from our ancestors-generation after generation, and we work along the same trodden path today even today. And whatever travelers come here they first know Baba and secondly they know the priest here because the come through him alone. All the people who come here make sure that their work is done according to the rules here and they gain faith and their wishes are fulfilled.
(Q7) INTERVIEWER: O.K. suppose my wife has a fever and she doesn't talk, and doesn't want to work-that is to say, doesn't want to work at all. If we were both to come to you then what could be done. So, what I'm asking is whether it is common-I mean women after marriage who do not want to work, don't want to talk. Is it common or something uncommon?
(A7) KUBER TIWARI: No. Look-there are many possible reasons. It is possible, for example, that she has been married off against her will, to someone other than the one she wanted to marry. In such a case there is an internal, mental suffering, which she does not admit openly to anyone but instead keeps simmering inside. Because of this, her body is affected, giving rise to a number of ailments. It is also often seen that sometime the sukshma jiva-what is called pret -atma-is also responsible in some cases. Suppose if a young, beautiful woman-all decked out with perfume and powder-goes into a desolate place at night or at midday, then the wandering souls, those whose only desire is to find a home-and what is their home? the human body-can possess her. In that case she may have a fever. Fever can also result from something lacking in the body. Many such patients come here on whom their doctors have given up, who have tried every kind of treatment and when they don't get well, they come to such a place. For them too, the same procedure: first, making them file a petition, next to arrange their sitting. So there are many "ghost-souls" whom we force to come to the suffering person after making the person "sit."
(Q8) INTERVIEWER: I see-in front of you?
(A8) KUBER TIWARI: Yes. We'll make them present themselves. We ask him "who are you?" It also happens that ten pretas or jivas afflict a single person. This number can be two, too, or just one. The preta comes and speaks, stares. We don't speak, he speaks himself. We question him and he replies. For example, "how did you catch this person?" "Why?" What is your haka-pada (entitlement)?" what is this person's fault that you are tormenting him? So what ever is the case, he states clearly and we note down his statement. Just as a lawyer please his case before a judge, point by point and asks this judge to rule either in favor or against the person, similarly we do this before Baba.
And the sukshma jiva that speaks gets an order from Maharaj [Shastri Brahm ] himself, like, "You have to burn in this pit, in my pit." Or "you have to take a place in my place, you have to leave this man's body." That pret repeats that statement and binds himself to an oath in front of us. We take it down and send the one destined to burn to be burned and form him who has been order to take a place here we make a pinda (sphere, ball) and have his puja done according to proper ritual. This brings about his pacification and the person afflicted by him gets well.
(Q9) INTERVIEWER: What's the importance of having a pindi made?
(A9) KUBER TIWARI: The importance of pindi is for this reason- it's a symbolic sign like the pyramid-pyramids were made after mummifying people, in Egypt or in other places. So the same is true today. Also to ensure that the subtle body (sukshma jiva) has a definite place, so that it does not go to someone else's body, nor afflict another person. And the preta (ghost) on his own happily says "Give me a place at this place."
(Q1) Could you tell us something about the differences between bhut s and pret s-there are a lot of forms of bhut/prêt so could you tell us something about them.
(A1a)KUBER TIWARI: See, the human yoni and the prêt yoni are two sides of the same coin-heads and tails. Only when two points meet can anything be created. Just as there is the human form of existence there is the prêt (ghostly) form of existence.
: After a man dies the invisible soul inside first has to go into the prêt yoni for a certain length of time which is predetermined. We can't see our souls but it is what makes us see, hear and speak. According to the actions-good or bad-the person may have done when alive his/her soul will have to wander aimlessly for a time period determined by the nature of the actions. The wandering soul meets a definite point only when it gets to change into a different yoni (form of existence)-when he gets rebirth. And this person gets liberated from prêt yoni. You can also come across such wandering souls that can knock on your door, jump on the roof of your house, or turn your food into blood or dust.
(A1b) KUBER TIWARI There are some good pret s too, and there are nasty ones as well. Then there are the murdered prêt. Suppose a man was murdered-say a Brahmin was-let's say for his money, his property, whatever. Now everything has a predetermined ayu (longevity), be it human, animal or anything. Now suppose the murdered person was supposed to live till 60 but his life was cut short at 30 years of age. So he will have to complete his remaining 30 years ayu as a pret . In this form his soul keeps wandering in a state of limbo. During this period he will try to avenge himself on people who murdered him, or had him harm in some way when he was alive.
In the process he makes his victims sick and no doctor on earth-in spite of the most advanced battery of tests-can detect the 'illness" because it does not conform to any known syndrome. It is jus a state of malaise that does not come into focus as any identifiable ailment. So the maximum number of people who come here are afflicted by this invisible power. Before coming here they do not believe in affliction by a prêt. They only come the conclusion when they fail to get cured even after consulting the best of doctors and faqirs.
(A1c) :KUBER TIWARI: These healers give up trying to treat him and leave to his fate. So that "disease' gets cured here. When the afflicted come first we make them touch their forehead to the threshold of the temple here and we pray on his behalf to Baba to allay all his ailments-bodily ailments, affliction due to bad planets and afflictions by spirits. Before that prayer is done we first make the person touch his forehead to the altar and pronounce his name, village, address, caste. Then we pray to Baba that if the ghostly souls afflicting that person are willing to come and say openly why they are afflicting him then please order them to go so that just may be done to them.
If they refuse to speak then, according to our special procedure here, we make a pinda from dry coconut-dry coconut is treated as a jiv (a life form)-and this pinda is rotated around his head and then Baba is prayed to rid the person of all his ailments. The coconut is offered in the first this of offering of ghee are done in the fire pit. Only this is then is the work complete. Next we give the person an amulet (yantra) to wear-it contains sacred ash from Baba's fire pit. He is supposed to wear it for a year. He is told to fast on Mondays and to eat no salt that day. In daytime he should eat only fruit and in the evening only sweet food. No onion or garlic that day because Brahm is the most pure and tamasik food is strictly prohibited on days when you fast for his grace. Other restrictions are that he should not-for one year-eat any food sullied by anyone else, nor should he accept anything from anyone. One the year is complete he comes back to this darbar to pay his thanks. The stones that you see here with things written on them have been placed here by grateful people who have benefited from coming here. People have their names, addresses and words of gratitude inscribed on them. People put up such plaques according to their financial capacity. Some people have bells installed in the temple instead. In whatever form they think they can repay Baba's debt because they feel indebted to him. Some people donate money for temple upkeep or expansion. In this way they also hope to have Baba 's grace on them forever.
(Q1) INTERVIEWER: When do people ring the bell in the temple? Upon entering.
(A1) KUBER TIWARI: It should be done after the puja is over and you are leaving. People ignorantly do upon entering, but it is a wrong practice. Ringing the bell prior to leaving is a way of respectfully taking leave. The bell is also rung at arati . So is the conch. At 8 pm everyday when the nighttime arati for Baba take place then all the people inside the temple ring whatever bell they are standing next to. The sound of bells and the conch purifies the air around you. The germs present die from the sound. Even scientists have proves this that the sounds of bells and conchs destroy ailments in the human body-even pret afflictions. That is why you will always find bells in temples.
(Q2) INTERVIEWER: What is the significance of arati ?
(A2) KUBER TIWARI: It is a way of begging pardon for any omissions-willful or otherwise-in the worship of the deity. During arati a surge of feeling comes out as a prayer for indulgence. The ringing of bells or blowing a conch awakens the power of the deity and this power is awakened for our own good. Arati is done to please the deity. If any omission has occurred in the puja , it gets made up for by doing arati .